Omar Samra & Omar Nour

Omar Samra & Omar Nour are the hosts of Kerning Cultures’ Beyond the Raging Sea: State of Mind. Follow Omar Samra on Twitter here, Omar Nour on Twitter here. Follow Kerning Cultures on Twitter here.

Describe Beyond the Raging Sea  in 10 words or less.
ON: Wait!  What??? I can’t even say my name in 10 words or less!  Ok, here we go: documentary, podcast, epic adventure, human perseverance, survival, perspective, resilience, refugees.  10 on the nose!

How are you two different, and how are you similar? What do you each bring to the project?
OS: Omar Nour and I on first glance seem like two polar opposites. Omar is gregarious and loud in public and I’m contemplative and quiet. Yet given my introverted tendencies, when we’re alone or with small familiar crowds, our personalities do tend to converge, as I get more comfortable in smaller groups and Omar less animated. More importantly, we share a lot of similar values in terms of commitment and work ethic. We’re also both courageous and won’t back down from anything we have set our mind to. We’re both willing to be honest with each other and are open to being convinced of something.

ON: Omar Samra and I are quite different personalities on the surface.  He is quiet...while quiet is not a word that has ever been used to describe me.  I am very high energy and OS is more laid back.  His background is epic adventuring, mine is professional sports.  He has the best conversations one-on-one and I do better in bigger groups where I can entertain. 

On the surface we are opposites but underneath that top layer, we are actually very similar: both very driven, passionate and laser-focused on our objectives.  We love to challenge ourselves and the status quo.  We are never worried about taking the path less traveled and enjoy pushing our limits whether self-imposed or societal.

When you were at sea, did you think ‘This could be a podcast?’ Or did that come later?
OS: We didn’t. Nor did we ever think it would be a movie. Even until this day we’re both pleasantly surprised and grateful that the Atlantic journey, even though did not achieve its intended initial objective, has arguably taken us so far on so many other avenues, and this has been especially true in how the movie has supported the plight of refugees, which was one of the main goals of the expedition when it started.

ON: Not at all!  We knew we were embarking on an epic adventure and (although fewer people have rowed an ocean than gone to space), we knew that plenty had done it and that our story was not necessarily worthy of a film or podcast. 

However, when we capsized, when everything that could possibly go wrong, was going wrong and survival looked bleak, we literally looked at each other and I said “WHEN we get out of this, we must make a film!”  He said that let’s just focus on getting out and he will make sure we do 10 films!  It was a moment of levity in the midst of what otherwise could only be described as a desperate situation. 

Sure enough, a few months after we survived that crazy experience, we released our documentary by the name of “Beyond the Raging Sea” focusing on our survival story and shedding light on the plight of refugees, a cause we were supporting through our row through a partnership with UNHCR. Kerning Cultures then came to us with an idea to create “Beyond the Raging Sea: State of Mind”, a podcast that would include experts who will help us dig deeper into different aspects of our state of mind during this near-death experience.

How do you turn a documentary into a podcast? Is it pretty much just taking the audio or is there tons more editing required?
OS: When we decided to make the podcast we knew it should complement it rather than be an audio rehash of it. Over the years since the rescue, we have given a lot of thought and reflection to so many aspects of the experience, from mental to physical to spiritual. We knew that a podcast audience, like us, would be interested to understand what happens when the mind, body and spirit is pushed to the absolute limit. We wanted to lean on experts and scientists to learn more as well, so that we can in the end impart some wisdom from our extreme experience that perhaps be useful for people in their everyday life.

ON: Not at all. We were so programmed to tell our story that the first day of recording the podcast, we basically told the whole thing sequentially.  The producers made us re-record the entire episode stating that we were not digging deep enough.  That set the tone for what was expected for the podcast. 

Making the movie was a challenge – of course, it’s such a personal story for both of us, so we wanted every single detail in there which doesn’t necessarily make for an impactful watch! Marco, our Director, had an equally challenging job reigning us in and developing a narrative that kept the audience on the edge of their seats…he called it killing babies!  We had to let go of pieces we were personally very attached to and that was quite difficult but the process.

The making of the podcast happened 4+ years after the experience and was a very different process – forcing us to dig deeper into different specific aspects of our state of mind. As a result, I discovered a bunch of new things about our experience which was incredibly eye opening.

What additional work did you need to do to turn the documentary into a podcast?
OS: Since the two shows don’t resemble each other much, it was like starting from scratch. Having said that we knew what aspects of the documentary people enjoyed the most and we were able to draw from that learning as well.

ON: A lot more soul searching and deeper thinking about many aspects of the experience.  It was enlightening to still be able to discover new learnings so many years after the experience. And what I love most about the podcast is how many of these learnings are so relevant in everyday life.

What was a high spot of your adventure?
OS: The relationship between Omar and I, and how that grew and developed over time into this extremely strong brotherly bond. Living through and surviving this experience together is something that I will cherish for the rest of my life.

ON: The first 24 hours were very tough on OS as he was violently seasick.  This forced me to stay on the oars for as long as 7 hours straight to keep us moving forward.  I was exhausted. On that second day, the waves got absolutely huge, the sun was shining, and all the elements were pushing us in the right direction.  I spent hours just surfing down the face of these massive waves pushing my speed up to 14 knots.  I was giggling from ear to ear and all the pain and exhaustion just faded into the background.  That was fun!

What was a low point of the adventure?
OS: The final 13 hours fighting for our lives out in the ocean, 1000 km from shore in the middle of an Atlantic storm, completely unsupported. The sense of fear, panic and dread will always live with us and guide our decisions in life. In many ways it has taught us so many valuable life lessons.

ON: The capsize and the hours after the capsize were extremely intense.  There were so many questions and not many answers.  OS had just finished his shift on the oars when the capsize occurred and he was dragged under the boat which is quite a traumatic experience.  As such, a lot of the responsibilities of preparing for our fight to survive fell on my shoulders.  My adrenaline was through the roof and stayed high for a long time as it took a good 2-3 hours of hard work to stabilize our situation.  I would say the biggest low is when we finally made it onto the life raft, I had a HUGE adrenaline dump and realized that there was not much left for us to do than to wait and hope.  That was when I felt the most desperate.

What did you learn about yourself being so close to death?
OS: I learned that I don’t want to die. That I have a lot to live for and just live for. I learned that I’m courageous and that when I’m truly tested I’m an optimist despite any difficult circumstance. I also learned, more than ever before, how the human spirit is unwavering and can rise above any challenge if you just choose not to give up hope.

ON: I am a very hyper personality and I expected that when faced with a life-or-death situation, I would be like a hummingbird flapping its wings all over the place.  The reality was that everything slowed down drastically.  Everything felt like it was going in slow motion allowing me to make decisions in a calm manner.  That definitely surprised me!

How did the experience change you?
OS: It made me more self aware. More open to life and love. To make the best of everything despite circumstance. It taught me more than ever that my life has to mean something and I must devote much of my energy to making an impact in things larger than myself.

ON: I would say that the experience did not fundamentally change me but it reinforced and accentuated different parts of my personality that were already present.  There was definitely a recalibration of priorities.  When you survive something like this, all of the sudden the morning traffic doesn’t stress you out. 

Unfortunately, we are human beings, and the layers start to pile back up until we revert back to our old ways and traffic goes back to stressing us out.  Omar and I make an active point to remind each other of the details of our experience every time we see each other to remind ourselves of what really matters. 

Another point that this experience drove home is the fact that we are quite insignificant on a larger scale.  It is an interesting thought as it is very difficult to think of ourselves as anything other than the center of our own worlds, but the reality is that if we perished out there, the world would keep on spinning.  One can look at that fact in a negative light but I view it as empowering as using that same logic, no matter how much you mess up, it is not a big deal on the larger scale of things.  So why not shoot and fail and repeat as much as possible.  That, to me, is the secret to growth!

You prepared for 10 months. Ultimately how were you prepared and how were you underprepared?
OS: We prepared for 1.5 years. I believe we are extremely well prepared in terms of our training, the things we needed to learn about our boat, the ocean and seamanship. We probably put more time into preparation than 90% of the teams out there. If we had to do it all over again, I wouldn’t change much other than minor configurations of how we packed the boat. I believe how things ended up were purely due to unfortunate luck and would not have been avoidable with any level of preparation.

ON: Actually, we prepared for 18 months.  While we started off with very little knowledge about the experience we were going to embark on, we took our physical and mental training very seriously.  As an athlete I understand that there is no substitute to replicating race conditions during practice to be able to gain knowledge so that everything becomes second nature on race day.  We spent an inordinate amount of time on our boat attempting to replicate what it would feel like to cross the Atlantic Ocean on a 7m x 1.5m rowboat.  From the North Sea to the waters around the Canary Islands, we did it all.  I felt like we were physically very prepared and our knowledge of the equipment, technology, navigation, etc. was on point.  The part that nothing can prepare you for, short of a previous ocean crossing, is the magnitude of the Atlantic Ocean.  The open ocean is bigger than anything we had seen before.  Also, how terrible one feels for the first 10 days is something that is very difficult to prepare for as well… the intensity of the first few days surprised us.  There was no reprieve.

Do you have any shark stories?
OS: I don’t, but suffice to say that where we capsized and treaded water for hours was great white shark hunting territory. Luckily, it’s not something that crossed either or our minds during those desperate moments of our survival attempts.

ON: Thankfully, no!  I will tell you that we capsized in an area which the Captain of the Kefalonia, the ship that eventually conducted the rescue mission, described as Great White Shark hunting territory.  When we were floating in the water, we definitely were aware that there was not much going on out in the middle of the ocean and that a wreck like ours would probably attract unwanted attention.  I think it is imperative that in situations like these, one only focuses on the things that s/he can control.  If we start to worry about the shark that may or may not be right beneath us, the fear can paralyze us, distracting us from the task at hand.  I believe in working the problem in front of us and staying the course.

What do you hope this show does for people?
OS: I hope that the show can enlighten curious minds and shed more light on our journey in a manner that is of relevance to everyone’s day to day life. Also among many things, it will help people love nature more, cope with stress better, and ask themselves hard questions. We also hope it will get more people excited to watch the documentary to see the story come to life and from a very different angle. I have a special hope for the desperation episode in that it will have people take more of an interest in the plight of refugees and appreciate the importance of this cause, and hopefully be moved to help.

ON: I learned a lot of things through this experience that I apply to my day-to-day life, whether it be my personal or business life.  I hope that listeners will be motivated to apply some of the lessons we learned to whatever challenges they may face in their daily lives.  I also hope that it highlights to listeners that we all have our own struggles and help build empathy for other people’s struggles.  We embarked on this journey in conjunction with UNHCR to shed light on the plight of refugees.  It would be fulfilling to know that we brought awareness for the cause to a new segment of society that may otherwise not be exposed to the challenges refugees face.

Fill in the blank: You will like Beyond the Raising Sea if you like _________.
OS: A good balance of emotional personal story, edge of your seat adventure, human psychology and science.

ON: David from David and Goliath

You both seem to like dares and challenging yourselves. Has that changed or are you thirsty for more?
OS: For me I’m going through a time right now where my challenges are not so much difficult physical adventure undertakings but rather pursuits or creating impact in the causes I passionately believe in, be it climate action, equality, and refuges.

ON: I am always thirsty for more adventures! I will say that I’ll look twice at the mega intense ones after this experience!  I always want to challenge myself and push the boundaries of my comfort but maybe have experiences with built in reprieves.

What are you afraid of?
OS: Strangely enough, very little now. I get overwhelmed and anxious just like the next guy, but I feel the row and survival experience has made me either resilient to fearing challenging situations but more importantly, when I do, I’m able to manage my thoughts and emotions to a point where I can see things more clearly.

ON: I think I have the same fears as most people; the fear of failure, the fear of the unknown, etc. as well as your typical physical fears.  However, I will say that they are not something I spend too much time focusing on and I definitely do not let these fears stop me from discovering new experiences.  Life is short, might as well go all out! 😊

If you listen to podcasts, which ones?
OS:Space shows like gravity assist. Interviews with people I’m curious about on podcasts like rich roll or the Joe Rogan experience.

ON: Anything about conspiracies… I love a good conspiracy!

Do you think we will see a surge in other filmmakers turning their projects into podcasts? Do you think it can always work or was there something about this one that lended itself perfectly for audio? 
OS: I’d love to see this trend grow. I for one, when I love a movie, feel disappointed that it’s done and I wish that we could approach the story from a different angle or have the opportunity to reflect on aspects of it. This is true for fiction and nonfiction. I think our story lended itself very well for an audio domain because there was so much nuance to explore and angles to delve into that could not have been all brought into the original documentary for length concerns or to stick to the beats of the film.

ON: I think that the medium of podcasts is a great way to storytell.  It allows you to go deeper into subjects that a film does not have room to go into.  I believe that when you enjoy a particular story, you are hungry for more… more of everything, more details, more stories, more analysis and that podcasts can provide that.  In many ways films and podcasts are quite complementary and can direct the viewer/listener that enjoyed the story to one another.  It is a cool ecosystem.

What does nobody ask you that you wish they did?
OS: The beauty of this podcast is that almost everything that I wish someone would have asked me or was a really interesting dimension to the story which the documentary couldn’t get into, was asked during the making of this show by Kerning Cultures.

ON: Nobody ever asks me what I was listening to while rowing.  And it is actually a question with a very interesting answer.  We decided to tell all of our friends and family to make playlists for us accompanied by a voice message.  I would save these for when the going got tough.  And boy did they help on those long, violent, dark, and lonely night sessions! I would just have my friends and family take me on an audio journey and transport me to a different place.  I felt each of their presences!  The only downside is that we capsized and I lost the ipod in the ocean before getting through all the playlists and messages… ☹

Thanks, Omar and Omar!