Nichole Hill

Nichole

Nichole Hill is an award-winning audio showrunner, producer and creator of the independent shows Our Ancestors Were Messy, a 2024 Official Tribeca Audio Selection, and The Secret Adventures of Black People. Her other work includes showrunning for Tonya Mosley’s She Has a Name, I Am America with Tracee Ellis Ross, and Vox's Land of the Giants: Dating Games season, and The Qube and PRX's Second Sunday. She lives in LA, is from VA, and reps DC all day!

Read 5 podcast recommendations from Nichole here.

Nichole’s ancestors, “The Jacksons of West Virginia”

Describe Our Ancestors Were Messy in 10 words or less.
Stories about our ancestors and all their drama!

If you like ________ you will like Our Ancestors Were Messy.
Drunk History

How’d you get the idea?
I grew up loving Old Hollywood films from the 1920s-50s. On rare occasions I would see a Black person in these movies, and I always wondered what their lives were like back home in their all-Black communities. Then in 2020 I stumbled across the Library of Congress’ digital archive of tens of thousands of Black newspapers documenting day to day life in segregated Black communities.  

I started reading and found the news…but with Black people in it! I found singles ads, poetry, society happenings, op eds, film reviews, short fiction, and gossip. I learned that during this period my ancestors were arguing with their formerly enslaved parents about their taste in music and fashion and careers. They were leveraging technological advancements to find love. They were crossing continents in search of opportunities to make their dreams come true. They were deploying every strategy they could think of to beat Jim Crow and all while gossiping, hooking up, hanging out, and being messy.

I got really excited about the idea of being able to highlight both sides of the ancestors and so, I made this show where I introduce a guest to the gossip, scandals, and pop culture that made headlines in historical Black newspapers across segregated communities in America.

How do you find the stories?
Once I found the papers five years ago, I started reading them for fun. There were some names and headlines that appeared a lot so I could tell they were big deals. Whenever I noticed something like that, I added them to a spreadsheet for further research.

And then what is your research process?
Eventually there were 100+ names and events on that spreadsheet, so I asked Siona Petreous to do some initial research and help me zero in on a few people and themes for the first season. Then Chioke I’Anson helped me dig into the archives in a really strategic way and find information that allowed me to paint a picture of the ancestors’ day to day lives.

I was surprised how much I learned in the first episode. Was the intent to educate people first and then you were like, “wait this is entertaining as hell” or was it the other way around?
I want everyone listening to have as much empathy for the people I cover as possible. So, I tried to find out as much as I could about the context the ancestors were living in and how that contributed to their actions. That background became the “educational asides” that happen in each episode. My hope is that by the time I tell the listener about the mess, they know enough about the ancestors’ world to be entertained but not overly judgmental.

What do we have in common with our ancestors other than messiness.
Our desire to redefine the meaning of community, identity, art, culture, and resistance. Our ancestors were successful on a scale that was unimaginable at that time, so it gives me a lot of hope for us today.

Can you tell us about your ancestors, anything you can share?
I can’t trace my ancestors too far back because no one in my family has felt up to facing the slavery parts of our history but I’ll tell you a story we all love. My Grandpa came from a family of coal miners in West Virginia, but he was determined to do something else; so in the 50s he decided to move to Auburn, Maine and work in the shoe manufacturing plants. My Nana was born in Athens, Georgia, and her mother was determined to get her out of the Deep South; so in the 50s she promised my Nana’s hand in marriage to a Bishop starting a church near Auburn, Maine. My Nana and the Bishop made the drive from Georgia to Maine, and stopped in West Virginia to pick up my Grandpa. My Nana said she saw the back of his head and knew he was the one. My Grandpa said he saw her hula hooping and that’s how he knew (lol!). They ended up married and running that church near Auburn which is where my mom grew up and where I spent most of my summers as a kid. I knew the Bishop my Nana was supposed to marry as my Uncle Bishop, whom my grandparents adored. I didn’t find out he wasn’t our blood relation until I was an adult.

Can you tell us about the sound? It is so perfect. How do you know how much to add, not too much, and how do you decide which sounds are perfect to fit in with the vibe and tone?
I worked with Jonathan Mitchell and a ton of incredible audio fiction writers on The Truth podcast and I learned to write audio screenplays with them which is how the scripts for this show are written. I wrote cues with my favorite Old Hollywood films in mind. Then I handed everything over to one of four sound designers. I wanted to work with different people because I wanted to hear how they would interpret the story. John DeLore sound designed my pilot episode and created an amazing template that everyone else adapted to fit their style. It's SO fun and I feel really lucky to get to work with these people whose work I’ve admired for so long. Episode 1 featured the brilliance and hilarity of Helena de Groot who had lots of incredible ideas about tone and had her own interpretation of the cues and how to bring different scenes to life.

How are you feeling about the podcast industry right now? I know it’s rough out there, are you still excited about stuff? And like what are you excited about?
I am excited by independents banding together to encourage one another, and collaborate, and promote each other’s work. It’s allowing for more of the unusual and the experimental in audio again, which I have missed!

Who is your favorite person in audio and why?
One of my faves is Van Newkirk II because his curiosity is so unique. I listen to Floodlines whenever I’m stuck creatively.

What’s a podcast you love that everyone already knows about?
Radiotopia Presents: Shithole Country

What’s a podcast you love that not enough people know about?
Run, Fool is appointment listening for me

What’s your favorite way to grow a podcast?
Feed drops are a love fest so I enjoy those but my all time favorite way is to create a list of orgs that I think my audience might be part of and then send a message to those orgs about my work and ask them to share. Whenever people message me and tell me they found my shows that way, I feel like a matchmaker!

Is there anything I didn’t ask you about that you wanna say?
Just that I wish there was a Letterbox’d review app for podcasts. I need a better way to track my listening and opinions, and I REALLY want to know what everyone else is listening to as well. 

Thanks, Nichole!