Jody Avirgan

Jody Avirgan is a podcast host and producer. His new show is Summer Album / Winter Album. He hosts the history show This Day and is one of the EP’s of What Now? With Trevor Noah. In the past he has made shows with Steph Curry, Higher Ground, 30 for 30, FiveThirtyEight, WNYC and many more. His favorite podcast of all time might be Dead Eyes.

Describe Summer Album / Winter Album in 10 words or less.
All albums are either summer or winter albums. We debate.

What was the “aha” moment when you were like, oh…this is a podcast?
I once had an argument with someone, insisting that a certain The War On Drugs album was a winter record. He was adamant that it was a summer record. Just so happens, that person was a member of The War On Drugs. It was then that I realized how interesting this (pretty arbitrary) divide was for talking about music. The other moment was when I pitched the concept to Ian at Talkhouse and he immediately pushed me to lean into the whole “debate club” vibe we try and do at the top. I really love writing those essays.

What defines a summer album? A winter album? Can you give us an idea of a good example of each?
Well the big meta-question is whether you begin with your personal experience, or something intrinsic to the album. So we explore that a lot. I love talking to Craig because he’s been on both sides of making an album, and loving albums. We talk a lot about how, for musicians, they sometimes record a record in the dead of winter, but then tour for it in the heat of summer. Which one defines their experience? Lots to discuss! In the end, I think you can almost make a valid argument that basically any record can be summer or winter -- though I recently got totally bamboozled by Malcolm Gladwell when arguing that Graceland was a summer record. Still stinging from that one.

I love how, when asked if Vampire Weekend’s “Modern Vampire,” Ezra Koenig said March 8th. Is that cheating? Are there right and wrong answers?
I don’t know if there are right or wrong answers, but that one was definitely a right one. I loved his answer -- and it’s been so cool to get so many artists chiming in to play along.

What kind of albums can we expect to see covered on Summer Album / Winter Album?
Well, Craig and I are… white guys of a certain age. So you might not be surprised at the Pavement, Modest Mouse, and Strokes records on the way. But we love all kinds of music -- I’m maybe most excited about the Lana Del Rey record we’re discussing soon. And I’m really curious to see what kinds of hip-hop albums we could dig into along these lines. (Hard to think of West Coast hip-hop as anything but summer, but you never know…)

How are you and Craig different and how are you the same? What do you each bring to the table?
Funny enough, I’m the “fan” and Craig is the musician, but I’ve noticed that he tends to lean a little towards his experience as a listener of the album; whereas I’m always interested in digging into the writing/production of the album itself.

OK so you’ve done a bunch of other things in audio, what’s your favorite so far?
It’s like asking me to choose my favorite kid (see below) but honestly I really love this current project. I recently proclaimed the Gladwell episode on Graceland as a top-five favorite things I”ve ever worked on, and I think it is. Also, as stressful as it was, I’m eternally proud of the work we did at 30 for 30.

Oh, can I be honest? The thing I may look forward to the most each week is trying to guess the title of that week’s New Yorker cover.

Does your daughter still love pizza?
She sure does. She’s seven now, and we haven’t had “the talk” with her about having once gone super-viral on a now-decimated social media platform.

What’s a podcast you love that everyone already knows about?
The Rest Is History

What’s a podcast you love that not enough people know about?
I honestly don’t know how many people know One Song but I absolutely love it. I’m pretty sure not that many people are listening to Selects and the work that Mitra and Ben are doing is really special.

Who in audio deserves a shout out?
Mitra Kaboli. Just a straight-up super-talented person.

How are you feeling about the state of the audio industry right now? Worried? Optimistic? Fucking stoked, because of Summer Album / Winter Album?
I feel very 2015. It’s time to keep your expectations in check, mostly do stuff that you’re excited about with people you’re excited to do it with, and hope that the rest works out. But, I think I’m feeling better than I was a year ago.

What didn’t I ask you that I should have?
You didn’t ask if I was pivoting to video! And, in fact, I am, kinda. I don’t know, in the last year or so, I’ve really embraced making more video content. I am convinced by all the data about how listeners are really gravitating towards youtube, but I also am finding myself creatively energized by flexing those muscles, which I haven’t in a while. Shoutout to Descript for making things pretty easy.

You definitely didn’t ask me about this, but I’m resolved to tell everyone about it. Next year is America 250, the 250th anniversary of this lil’ country of ours. On my history show, This Day, we are planning a major year-long initiative, called “50 Weeks That Shaped America.” We are currently seeking resources -- network partners, title sponsors, grants, philanthropists who understand the role of public history… It’s going to be a big moment, and we plan to be a part of it in a big way. If anyone has any ideas or wants to collaborate, please get in touch.

Thanks, Jody!!