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Podcast Gumbo's Paul Kondo and I are doing a fun collaboration for our readers. Each week for the next four weeks, we have collected a podcast recommendation from one of our pals at Bello Collective. Paul and I will then listen on our own, and answer the same four questions about our experiences listening. Make sense?

THIS WEEK'S RECOMMENDER: Galen Beebe, editor at the Bello Collective, managing editor of Ministry of Ideas, co-founder of Etc. Gallery (etc-gallery.com), recommended the Hidden Treasures episode of American Submitter.

Snippet of Paul’s review: “Honestly, the ‘experimental’ nature didn’t resonate with me at all. I have to admit that when I read Lauren’s review, I began to question if we listened to the same episode. To me, I didn’t feel it was any different than any other interview show. Sure, the daughter was a big part of the episode and following them during the course of their day was interesting. But what was so experimental?” Read Paul’s full review here and subscribe to Podcast Gumbo here.

My review: I recommend going into this episode without knowing much about the show. Just know that it's very experimental and you may enjoy taking some time placing yourself in the story. This episode is an audio documentary that explores the way children see the world. At first I thought it seemed like random blabbering I couldn't bring myself to care about. It seemed like the kind of stories I hear from my friends about their kids, but when my friends tell me these stories I care because they are my friends. But the more I listened, the more intrigued I became. By the end, I was really invested in the people speaking, and I found myself thinking about them long after the episode was over. I recommend listening to this the whole way through. It's an interesting project and worth a listen. I'm grateful Galen sent it my way, because I'm not sure I would have listened to it on my own. And I really appreciate the creative approach to what a podcast can be.

What stood out to you the most?
LP: There was an anecdote I have been rolling over in my mind. One of the voices, a working mom, worries about not spending enough time with her daughter. But then she remembers that as a child, her mom was a working mom, and the rare times she was home felt more special because it wasn't all the time. When her mom was in the house, she said, it felt like an extra light switch was turned on. Her mom turned on a memorable kind of energy when she was there. It made me think a lot about how a) I hope that someone, anyone, will ever say this about me and b) my mom was a stay-at-home mom and we were always together, and I somehow always felt like she was turning the fun light on in the house. It never went out. How did she do it?

How was this different or similar to what you usually listen to?
LP: I think this is different than what everyone is listening to. It's not following typical rules of a story. It's like a hybrid piece of multi-media art.

Who would you recommend this show to?
LP: People who are excited to try out a few podcast format.

Are you adding this show to your listening library?
LP: Yes. I want to see what other episodes of American Submitter are like.


RECOMMENDER: Elena Fernandez-Collins (podcast critic, Bello Collective, Audio Dramatic) recommended “Surfacing,” The Big Loop.

Snippet of Paul’s review: “I asked Ely for fiction, and this wasn’t fiction. Or was it? (It is.) I think that was a big part of why it was so compelling to me. I don’t normally listen to fiction and this didn’t come off that way. It’s a one-person narrative that feels so real.” Read Paul’s full review here and subscribe to Podcast Gumbo here.

My review: I didn't know anything about this episode going in, which I highly recommend. (Thanks for that suggestion, Paul!) So once again, I felt like I was dropped into a world (the sea?) without knowing where I was. But the narrator, who is telling the story of her mother, a deaf Japanese pearl diver, holds your hand and pulls you in very close, whispers, kind of, to tell you the story of her heartbreak and the loss of her mother's true love. This episode felt quiet, tapping into the mother's deafness, but loud, if that makes sense. The narrator was very quiet but I felt like she was inside my head. I felt like I was underwater with her mom. The music took me to another place. Listen to this if you just want an example of what great audio sounds like, how great storytelling is done. I think I will revisit this one, it's that good.


What stood out to you the most?
LP: The sound, music, and narrator's voice. All beautiful. I almost cannot believe this is a fiction podcast—the voice actor was so emotional, seemed almost on the edge of tears. I felt like someone was telling me a beautiful, true story. Also, the narrator's relationship with sound and how that plays into the podcast. The narrator is deaf, so the way she tells the story feels like it's taking advantage of other senses, and it causes her to tell the story in a different way. I was also taken aback by the uniqueness of the story. A deaf Japanese pearl diver telling her daughter the story of her true love. Not the story of the love she fostered physically. Her true love. Which is different. And blew my mind. Do we all have someone like this?

How was this different or similar to what you usually listen to?
LP: I've just been getting into fiction shows, and have only started really looking for high quality audio. This is just the kind of thing I've been searching for. But I'm worried it will spoil me. I have never heard better sound or production on a podcast.

Who would you recommend this show to?
LP: People who like to listen to podcasts doing nothing else, people who love literary fiction or stories, people who love music and are interested in high-quality audio.

Are you adding this show to your listening library?
LP: HELL YES. I feel lucky that I have a whole back-log to listen to. Thanks, Ely!


RECOMMENDER: Erik Jones, writer of the Hurt Your Brain newsletter has offered up Death, Sex & Money’s “I Killed Someone. Now I Have 3 Kids.” My notes are below, but if you want to read Paul's, you should read them here and subscribe to Podcast Gumbo here.

Here’s a snippet of Paul’s review: I know that may make me come off as some heartless unsympathetic soul and I admit that it surprised me as well. I grew up and lived almost my entire life in an affluent NJ community that shared a border with Newark, one of the worst cities in the country. I’d like to think that I have a small understanding between the haves and have-nots. So what’s missing for me here?

And here’s mine: Wow, thanks a lot, Erik :). This one was a roller coaster ride. Anna Sale interviews Lawrence Bartley, who in 1990, at age 17, killed Tremain Hall, a 15 year-old bystander, during a shoot-out in a movie theater. He's been in prison ever since. Anna interviews him about what it's like to have a wife and kids (he watched his son take his first steps in the prison visiting room.) Getting to hear personal stories of people in prison is an important tool in understanding the prison system. Without these stories we are so much in the dark. At one point, Anna asks Lawrence if he's ever been on the internet. He says no, but has "seen a black and white picture of it." That was a dumb little thing but made me start to worry about how Lawrence will adjust to the new world, once he is out, if he ever gets out. I'd be curious to hear if other people thought Lawrence's punishment fit his crime, or if someone who made such a grave mistake at 17 could be redeemed in another way. That's what Death, Sex and Money does to me. It makes me think about hard questions. (I'm thinking specifically about one of my favorite Death, Sex and Money episodes, Why I Steal.)

What stood out to you the most?

My mind was being tugged back and forth between feeling so sorry for Lawrence, who seems like a wonderful person who was in a terrible situation when he was young, and feeling sorry for the family of the man he killed. It strengthened a thought I have all the time, that I wish we had a different system of putting people in jail. It seems like there should be another way to deal with Lawrence's crime. I kept thinking about how this same thing could have happened to me had I grown up in a different situation. But I was so grateful to hear from Tremain’s brother. That interview sequence provided the opportunity to feel compassion for the other side, and it's what made this interview not something that simply let Lawrence off the hook for what he did. It would have been very easy to do that otherwise.

How was this different or similar to what you usually listen to?

LP: I have listened to Death, Sex and Money for years, this is just the sort of thing I enjoy listening to. But I don't remember this episode, so I'm glad Erik brought it to my attention. I love podcasts that let me hear the perspectives of other people with very different stories. It was a well-produced episode and did a lot of things to my brain and my heart.

Who would you recommend this show to?

LP: Anyone who wants to challenge their thinking.

Are you adding this show to your listening library?

LP: This show is in my listening library. But this episode reminded me why it's there in the first place.



RECOMMENDER: the fabulous Skye Pillsbury of Inside Podcasting. Skye sent us Travel Options for the Collapse from Desert Oracle. My notes are below, but if you want to read Paul's, you should read them here and subscribe to Podcast Gumbo here.

Here’s a snippet of Paul’s review: “As soon as I started listening, I began to question my relationship with Skye. This is not the same ol’, same ol’. It sounds like fiction but it’s not. (In truth, I still have some doubts.) What is it exactly? It’s an audio piece that harkens back to a time when tv didn’t even exist. How did people hear about events and stories back then? Radio shows. Just like this.” Read more

And here’s mine: It took me awhile to get into Skye's recommendation, Desert Oracle's "Travel Options for the Collapse" episode. I had to restart it several times. I kept getting distracted, then would hear a quirky word or phrase that made me want to go back to the very beginning to understand what on earth was going on. I didn't do any reading before hand, so I was literally dropped into the strange world of Desert Oracle, and I felt a little out of sorts. Reading about it now, I'm told that Desert Oracle produces weekly road trips through the desert. Each story is mysterious and ominous. The intent, I think, is to make the listener feel out of place. But the more I listened, the more I wanted to hear more and understand what was happening to me! "Travel Options for the Collapse" lets us picture the desert after an apocalypse. As I got to know the narrator better, I felt like I was piecing together a puzzle. Where is this story coming from? Why does he hate social media so much? I listened to another episode, to get a better sense of the entire project, and my takeaway is that listening to Desert Oracle is an audio adventure. You have to be engaged and curious to go on the ride. I think it's worth it, if you're able to be patient with the unique presentation of the show. Don't you dare listen to this show when you're doing anything that requires your attention. Go lie down on the floor and stare at the ceiling or something.


What stood out to you the most?
LP: The sense of place, or lack-thereof. I knew I was somewhere strange, but couldn't place where. As the episode continued the clouds began to lift. As I listened again and again, it felt like the setting was a ghost appearing to me, stronger and stronger the longer I looked.

How was this different or similar to what you usually listen to?
LP: I have just started getting into fiction shows, and this wasn't even that. It felt real but was scripted. It didn't have a character or an interviewer or even a story. It just was.

Who would you recommend this show to?
LP: I would only recommend this show to someone who wants to challenge themselves and really expand their list with something totally unique. Like, are you ready to take your podcast listening to the next level? Joe Rogan/My Favorite Murder/Stuff You Should Know listeners need not apply.

Are you adding this show to your listening library?
LP:I introduced Desert Oracle to my husband, and it’s quickly become a family favorite. My husband has listened to even more episodes than I have, and we have found it’s a great podcast to listen to while we are falling asleep! Podcast discovery FTW! Thanks, Skye!