Buddy Duquesne and Alice White

Buddy Duquesne and Alice White are the hosts of Those Happy Places. Follow Buddy on Twitter here. Follow Alice on Twitter here. Follow the show on Twitter here.

Kindly introduce yourselves and tell us what you do!
Buddy: I’m Buddy Duquesne! I’m an educator and media scholar out of the Bay Area, California. I create some podcasts with my best friend, Alice White. I guess you could say that our flagship show is Those Happy Places, in which we treat Theme Parks, Rides, and Attractions like Literature!

Alice: And I’m Alice White, I’m a flight attendant and an actor and former Disney cast member. Actually we were both cast members straight out of high school, but even before that we were huge theme park fans. We grew up together and Disneyland was our favorite after-school hang out.

How did you originally make the connection between theme parks and literature?
Buddy: I think Alice might agree with me when I say that this is a case of, “When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” We both have a background in close-reading literature and media for analysis. It was after our thousandth conversation about The Haunted Mansion that we decided that we may as well record it for posterity--and a podcast was born.

Alice: We were very lucky that back when we were in school, Southern California Resident Annual Passes were very cheap and Disneyland was only a twenty minute drive away. Having constant access to Disneyland, Knott’s Berry Farm, Six Flags Magic Mountain, and Universal Studios Hollywood as kids made us very aware of how theme parks were marketed and developed, we saw them change around us for decades and always cared a lot about our experiences there. Talking about theme parks and comparing them to literature was always a part of our lives, it just took us getting Masters degrees and microphones to really get us started.

What is different about the way Disney parks tells stories?
Buddy: We’re big proponents of the Studio Theory of Theme Park Authorship--explored in Episode 44 of the show! The short answer is that each major player in the Theme Park space has its own particular “flavor” when it comes to storytelling. Disney, at its best, is atmospheric above all else. The classic attractions we find ourselves returning to again and again--both during visits and on the show for analysis--are all about creating a lasting mood by engaging every sense. This contrasts with, for example Universal’s parks, which focus on novelty and thrills. Both approaches are totally valid, but I guess you could argue that Disney’s best attractions have more staying power than Universal’s best, because they’re so effective at transporting their audiences to fully realized worlds.

Alice: I don’t have anything to add, isn’t he brilliant? I love Universal Studios so much but he’s right, the repeat ridings and staying power just aren’t the same.

What does your friendship bring to the show, and what does the show do for your friendship?
Alice: We’ve been inseparable since we were thirteen. We went to middle school, high school, AND undergrad together. When we ended up moving to opposite sides of the country for work, we started using the podcast as a way to always have contact with each other. Being able to be creative with my best friend is almost as good as having him nearby.

Buddy: Alice is my best friend on this, or any other, planet. I would not do this show with anyone else. I feel genuinely thankful for every episode that we’re able to produce, because it gives us a chance to set time aside to do something creative together. This is a brilliant hobby, in that we can take it with us wherever we are--and it’s turned into something we get to share with the world!

Fill in the blank. You will love Those Happy Places if you like ______.
Buddy: Oh man, this is a great question. I guess it’s too obvious to say Theme Parks in that blank, isn’t it? Alice, do you have any ideas?

Alice: Obvious but accurate! If you like theme parks, you’ll definitely like Those Happy Places. But I think the show also appeals to anyone who likes analyzing any kind of art or media. We like to say that there are so many podcasts about movies and TV shows and books who all do the same thing we do, but few people realize the kind of work and care that goes into writing and designing a ride. Anyone who is interested in learning more about the world around them might enjoy our show.

I get this happy feeling in my stomach anytime I listen to your show or consume any Disney content. Do you get a happy feeling making the show?
Buddy: That’s incredibly flattering, I can’t thank you enough for saying so! I’d describe the process of making, sharing, and even re-visiting the show is, for me, totally joyous.

Alice: I genuinely look forward to every recording session. It’s so fun to make and it’s SO fun to get feedback. Finding time to write and edit can be tricky, but your joy in listening makes every hard thing worth it.

Has doing the show made you like Disney more or less?
Buddy: That’s a complicated question! I think it’s changed the ways that I appreciate the parks and resorts, for sure; one thing I think we’re not shy about sharing is just how near-and-dear Disneyland has always been to our hearts. We practically grew up at the parks, we both had stints as cast members, and now we’ve got this podcast. In general, I’d say that my fandom has gone from surface level--knowing the rides and attractions like the back of my hand, knowing the locations of most hidden Mickeys, and such--to analytical. Because of the show, I’m much more concerned with design, story structure, and the ways that environments communicate details to the audience.

Alice: I agree with Buddy, but to be honest I think sometimes it does make me like Disney less. It’s been things like our episode about Rainbow Capitalism (episode 31) and our examination about colonial elements in the Jungle Cruise (episode 15) that have made us have to take huge steps back and think about how we have seen the world as privileged people. Disney is a huge corporation that has given us so many wonderful things but like most corporations has a difficult history to swallow. I still love the parks and the films, but I’m far more critical than I used to be. Sometimes I learn a fun fact or discover something new and I fall in love again, those are the best days. But I think there’s room for both.

Buddy: I agree with Alice. If nothing else, the relationship got more complicated-- but we weren’t exactly viewing the parks through rose-tinted glasses to begin with. I’d say that the experience that changed my view of the parks most dramatically was working as a cast member--not just looking behind the curtain, but living there. Of course, stepping back and analyzing the rides and attractions as texts has been yet another layer on top of that!

Which episode was the most fun to make?
Alice: The most fun episodes to make have been, ironically, the ones that require the most work. Everytime we do an episode about a topic that we don’t immediately know off the top of our head, we get a chance to dive deep into research.

Buddy: I’m a huge fan of our most recent miniseries, Birds of Paradise, for that exact reason. (Ed note: this is the series that introduced me to Those Happy Places, and made me fall in love with the show!) In four episodes, we did a deep dive on the history of Walt Disney’s Enchanted Tiki Room--and I really do mean deep. I think it’s a great example of how the story of an attraction is more than the history of its development and construction--the Tiki Room is the indirect result of a cultural movement in the United States that started with the first Europeans landing in the Hawaiian Islands in the 1700’s, and connecting those historical dots was an absolute blast.

Are there too many podcasts?
Buddy: Absolutely not. This medium has a near-infinite capacity for unique voices to find audiences. Podcasts absolutely still have room to grow, and I’m constantly in search of my new favorite.

Alice: There can never be too many podcasts, but to be honest I’d like to see more people getting really creative with the format. There are thousands of talk shows about friends getting together and just chatting, and that’s great! I love those! But there are so many things that can be done with audio. The audio fiction community has put out some amazing pieces of art, I’d love to see more of that go mainstream.

What do you hope the show does for people?
Buddy: Gosh, more than anything, I just hope that our show is a comfortable, interesting, positive place that folks can visit at their leisure.

Alice: Same, I hope that people find that they’re learning and engaging with the work, but mostly I want to be a positive voice in a community of fans often fraught with drama.

Should podcasters read their Apple Podcast reviews?
Buddy: In our experience, absolutely. Some of the reviews we’ve gotten have become cherished bits of positive feedback that--no exaggeration--I’ll go back and read when I’m feeling myself less than enthused about editing the show.

Alice: We still have a relatively small audience so the feedback has been easy to keep up with and digest, and is mostly positive. To be honest since I use a different app to listen to shows I forget about Apple reviews, so when I stumble back to the Podcasts app and see a new review it’s like a treat! My advice is to not check them every day, but maybe once a month. Let them be a treat rather than a source of angst.

What other shows do you love?
Buddy: Too many to count. The one podcast I’ll always shout about from the mountaintops is Campaign. It’s an actual-play RPG that, in my opinion, is the best in the format.

Alice: Good call, Buddy, I love Campaign. I listen to so many it’s hard to narrow down to just a few! I’m a big fan of Crooked Media and listen to several of their shows every week. I love 99% Invisible. Audio dramas like Valence, The Far Meridian, The Amelia Project, and The Bright Sessions. And a show I love that I think anyone who likes THP should listen to is Iconography by Charles Gustine. He is so good at finding the meaning and story behind the most iconic images in our culture.

Buddy: Iconography is an absolute treasure. I’m also listening to Hit the Bricks right now--it’s a fantastic retelling of The Wizard of Oz. But, yeah, we could really go on.

Thanks, you two!