Lindy West & Meagan Hatcher-Mays

Lindy West and Meagan Hatcher-Mays are the hosts of Text Me Back.

What's your elevator pitch for the show?
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: How long is the elevator ride? .

Lindy West: I feel like people ask us that, and honestly, it's like, we're two best friends who are really funny. Is that a strong enough hook to get you to listen to our podcast? The advice we got is that it's really important to have a news hook and make sure that the podcast provides some kind of information to people. So we were pitching this kind of more news-based show, almost like an explainer podcast where would ask Mesgan a question about how the government works, and she would explain it to me, and then we would use that as a vehicle to be goofy Then as we continued to work on it, and especially once we started recording stuff, once we started working with KUOW, the stuff that everyone liked the best was the stuff where we were just talking and goofing off. They were like, ‘can we do more of that? And less of the news?’ And we were like, ‘yes please.’

MHM: I think literally we were like, ‘oh, thank God.’ I think one of the best things about working with KUOW so far is that they really were like, ‘you know that part at the beginning that was five minutes long, where you guys were just talking to each other? The whole podcast should be that.’ And I was like, ‘exactly.’ So that's the premise. 

LW: It really opened up to just the stuff that we're actually really interested in and none of the boring stuff that we're just talking about because we felt obligated I realized is that what I would love for this podcast to be is people's comfort listen, where you feel like we're your friends and you go tune in every week because it feels like sort of warm, fuzzy family.

MHM: Yeah. That's us.

LW: I have had relationships like that with radio shows and podcasts in the past, and certainly with TV shows, when there are things where you want to go back just to spend time with the people because  you feel connected to them even if you don't know them. And that's what I hope people can get from this.

Can you tell me about your relationship? You were voted most likely to make you laugh in high school. Let's go back, I need to know about this. In high school, which table did you sit at in the cafeteria? 
MHM: Well, first of all, I feel like our high school cafeteria was so unique. Nobody ever ate in it. I don't even think I knew where it was. 

LW: Here's my favorite thing about our cafeteria, that nobody ever entered or left. Our high school mascot was the Bulldogs and then the cafeteria was called Dog Bone. It had a big sign over the door that said Dog Bone.

MHM: Our friendship was just really interesting. We had mutual friends all through high school, but we didn't actually meet until like second semester senior year. So it was like a lot of wasted time, a lot of wasted jokes. We met in the gym, registering for classes. I really wish I could remember what the joke was, but Lindy said something so funny and like, something that made me feel seen. Like she referenced a Late Night with Conan O'Brien sketch or something, and I was like, ‘hello. I video record that on VHS cassettes every night.’ So it was like some very dorky mind meld. And I was like, ‘this is very pleasant. This is really scratching an itch in my brain that had I'd not felt in some time.’ 

LW: I was like, ‘let’s be best friends. What are you doing for six months until I go to college? Let's hang out every day.’ And so we did. There was no like ramping up to being best friends. It was immediate. Like, let's drive around in your Volvo and scream laughing for six straight months. I think spiritually that is still very true of our friendship, even though we don't live in the same city anymore. I think that Meagan was more popular. 

MHM: I don't think that's right. .

LW: It's not like either of us were getting bullied, but neither of us was prom queen. We were like in the middle. 

MHM: I made strategic friendships with people who lived in my neighborhood so I could get rides home. 

LW: So then we got voted funniest. I do think that I'm very funny. However, I was on the yearbook staff. And so I did have insider knowledge, which is that there were like two other people that won, and they got more votes than me. But they were so cool and popular that they also won other categories. But Meagan won. She was the real deal. But it was also cute because we were brand new best friends. 

MHM: And now we live in the memories of our peers as the funniest. 

Do they know about the podcast? 
LW: One of our friends from high school works at KUOW and she messaged me, she was like, ‘have you and Meagan ever thought about doing a podcast?’ I had posted some video of us being stupid. And I was like, ‘well, we've been trying.’ And then that's actually how we ended up doing it. I think in general, some people from high school are gonna be like, ‘this is great.’ And some people are gonna be like, ‘oh, Jesus Christ.’

Do you remember the first time you realized you were funny?

LW: I always made my parents laugh and I always thought they were laughing at me. 

MHM: I remember it very specifically. I was in preschool and we were doing The Wheels on the Bus. And a teacher was like, ‘if you're tired, show me how you're tired.’ And I did like an exasperated look, and she loved it. And I was like, ‘that was fun. I should do that again.’ And then I proceeded to get in trouble. There were many classes I had to be physically separated from other people in the class because we just were laughing 

LW: I remember that the summer after senior year of high school, when we were deep in our friendship, I was sitting in Meagan's basement and we were like, we should have a radio show. Can you imagine if we had a radio show someday? She was like, ‘no.’

MHM: I didn't have the vision.

LW: I think you were just trying to keep me grounded. 

How are you different and how are you the same? Like what do you both bring to the show?
MHM: I think people might be surprised to learn that Lindy's pretty introverted. You are funny and good around people, but I do think it makes you really tired. You want to wrap yourself up like a burrito and read a novel. And I'm not that, I'm an energy demon. I require the laughs really bad. I gotta have 'em. But I think when you actually listen to the show, it ends up being really balanced in that same way. Our interests are very similar, but I do think our personalities are kind of different. Having a working relationship with Lindy has been really fun. She's a professional humorist. 

LW: I feel like what you just described is like me being a thoughtful professional and you being a clown. But you are the only person on the show who knows anything. So much of the show is Meagan having actual professional expertise. Meagan's a lawyer. She went to law school.

MHM: I did. Isn't that weird?

LW: I'm like, ‘there's a baby ghost that steals your farts.’

MHM: But you're so thoughtful about it. About the baby ghost and his his gas. I went to law school as a joke almost. That's not really what I care about. And I think you get that when you listen to the show. There are like segments where Lindy will have a bit about an ancient Polish vampire boy that they dug up. And then mine will be like, is our government being negatively impacted by older people not retiring? I think either way it's like the nugget of something that is just an opportunity for us to talk to each other.

LW: Meagan teaches me to be a little bit more brave and confrontational, and maybe I teach Meagan to be a little bit more soft and forgiving. 

MHM: That's true. I'm a real one strike and you're a three-strikes-you’re-out type of person. I’ll be like, ‘why wouldn't you just run this person over with your car? They hurt your feelings.’ And Lindy's like, ‘what if we thought about it for two seconds?’ 

Lindy, I read in Butt News that it's the best thing you've ever done. 
LW: I think so. As I've gotten more successful and more established, I have been able to move closer and closer to what I actually wanna make, versus what other people want me to make. This is the purest expression of that where it is just me and Meagan talking, which is what I wanna do. I just feel like I started my career being a goofball at The Stranger in the newspaper. And then I got really sucked into this vortex of being serious and having to write about heavy stuff for a long time. And it was very exhausting. And I feel like it undermined my identity in this way where people started thinking of me as this very serious drag.

MHM: It was also because you became like a representative. You had to become like an avatar for this whole society-wide Ill. That's a lot of responsibility for one person to take on. 

LW: That work was super rewarding, and the stuff that I write about in Shrill and The Witches Are Coming is very personal and very important to me. But I also just wanna be a goofball. And so I've been very consciously returning to that place. When Meagan and I were in high school, I wasn't like, ‘I wanna be an essayist about abortion. I want everyone to examine every inch of my body and complain about it. I wanna offer my body up to be devoured by the masses who hate me. I wanna soak my laptop in tears about being fat.’ When I was in high school, I wanted be a clown on the radio. And before that I wanted to write fantasy novels. So maybe that's next. 

MHM: We have never talked about this explicitly, but everything you just said I feel like in such a parallel way. I went to law school and I moved to DC and I've done a lot of policy work at different organizations over the last 10 years. And there's a lot of policy stuff I care about very deeply. My day job is working on democracy reform and the Supreme Court, and I care about that. But also it's really hard because the Supreme Court sucks a lot. And then you just kinda get to a point where you're like, there's so many wonderful people doing this work. I don't have to keep doing this. Other people can do this too. And now my passion about this is making me tired and making me hurt. I need to take a break from it. I'm in my forties and I wanna do something really fun, even if it's just for 12 episodes or even if it's just for a year. I just wanna be a clown 'cause that makes me feel good.

LW: Meagan, I don’t want to speak for you, but re: the introvert extrovert conversation, I feel like your whole life people, especially in professional settings, have been like, Meagan, can you tone it down? 

MHM: That's what's been kind of crazy. We'll go into a recording session and our producer will be like, ‘you’ve got ramp up your energy.’ And I'm like, ‘are you serious?’ For someone to be like, ‘can you pick it up a few notches?’ instead of being like, ‘this is the House of Representatives. Can you be quiet?’ It's been amazing.

Do you listen to podcasts?
MHM: I do. I mostly listen to true crime podcasts, if I'm being honest. 

LW: The Bill Clinton season of Slow Burn was great. I really liked it because you got to re-examine that time period from today's standards. But my favorite podcast ever only had one season—Mystery Show.

MHM: I loved that show. One of my favorites was about how tall Jake Gyllenhaal was. And she finally got to measure him on Conan O'Brien. And I was like, ‘this is the best day of my life.’ 

LW: I have some mysteries that I would like to solve on the podcast though. I've got some ideas. I feel like it would be funny to solve mysteries from our friendship. 

Where’d you get the name Text Me Back? Were there any other potentials for the name?
LW: It was originally gonna be called ‘The Care Lords’ where we're talking about politics, but we care. We're soft girls who care. And then when we made the pilot it was called ‘Most Likely to Make You Laugh.’ That was too long. And then we had a big brainstorm and the result was Text Me Back. My vote was ‘Best Friend Party Phone,’ which no one liked except me.

MHM: it's possible that we could turn that into a segment. So I don't think that name is dead yet. But Text Me Back just stuck. ‘Text Me Back’ is kind of like the function of our friendship now that I live in DC and Lindy lives in the woods. We text each other weird stuff all the time. She messages me like really horrible stuff on Instagram that I hate. I hate every single thing she's ever sent me.

LW: I try to ruin Meagan's Day.

MHM: She's got a hundred percent success rate. I'll send her something ridiculous like about how a congressman vaped on the house floor. We liked the vibe of sort of like a deranged longing to hear back from your best friend about the crazy thing that you just sent them. Lindy will do this thing where if I don't respond to her in a day, she'll question mark the thing that she sent me to be like, hello, to bump it. Like, what's your take on this ? You know? Like this dog…

LW: This dog was born with a short spine.

MHM: He doesn't have a neck. Those are the sorts of things that we'll text each other back and forth because we don't get to see each other.

Looking forward to hearing about the neck dog on the show. Thanks, Lindy and Meagan!