Jesse Thorn

Jesse Thorn, who Fast company called “the most important person in entertainment you’ve never heard of.” is the founder of Maximum Fun.

Today the pioneering, audience-supported podcast network announced today that it is changing its corporate structure to a worker-owned Cooperative. The transition to a co-op structure will ensure the sustainability, longevity, and success of the company into the future. Under the new cooperative structure, Thorn will transfer ownership of the company (officially an S-Corp founded in 2011) to its two dozen employees, who will assume decision-making responsibilities, elect a Board of Directors, and enjoy the benefits of being worker-owners. Thorn will remain with the company as a worker-owner, and will continue to partner with MaxFun to host and produce podcasts. 

The new cooperative will focus on sustainability, fair compensation, and responsible growth, and it looks to attract new and diverse talent as it continues to expand. 

How would you describe the Max Fun vibe in 3 words? 
How about… smart, funny, kind?

How did you share the news with your creators and what have their response been?
Our managing director Bikram and I had meetings with each show over the last six weeks or so. I think everyone was worried because we couldn’t really tell them what the meeting was about in advance, so they were basically getting called in to the principal’s office. We did a fair amount of explaining what coops are and how they work, sharing what we’ve learned over the last eighteen months or so, as you’d expect. And then shared a little bit of the why. By and large the talent was thrilled. We were on Zoom, but I think I saw two hosts cry a little. I mean, they’re with us because they’re with us.

How will this change impact your creators? 
Actually very little, in an immediate practical way. The day-to-day management structure of the company is the same, the deals are the same, the people are the same. But it will certainly be… if not a vibe shift, a vibe reinforcement. I see it as reflecting within our business structure the values we’ve tried to reflect in our relationship with shows. And frankly, I hope this will encourage listeners to become members, which will be great for creators and for the business. 

How will this change impact listeners?
Again: very little, on a practical, day-to-day basis. But I know it means a lot to our listeners that our creators own their shows, and now they’ll know that the person who replies to their email or sends out their baseball cap or troubleshoots the RSS feeds also owns their work.

How will this change impact your own role with Maximum Fun?
I’m not going anywhere. I’ll be an employee-owner myself, with the primary duty of relationships to talent and creative consultation, but also responsibility for wearing the character costume when we do promotional tours of mall food courts. I’ll be on the board, as a non-voting member, making sure everyone has access to what expertise I’ve gathered over the years. And my own shows - Bullseye, Jordan Jesse Go and Judge John Hodgman - will all be creator-owned shows in the MaxFun network, and will be staffed with MaxFun employees. So I guess the main change is that I can still talk as much as I want but now nobody technically *has* to listen to me.

Was the move to a worker-owned cooperative due to changes in the podcast industry, or is this something that would have happened regardless?
I think we have long anticipated what has happened in the podcast industry recently. We’ve been doing this for coming up on twenty years, now. We’ve seen waves of speculative money. I put my show out via Odoo. I listened to podcasts on a Zune. The latest wave of money has certainly been the biggest, but the reality is that while a lot of companies got out ahead of their skis, trying to grab market share without consideration for how much money they burned through doing so, the actual medium is really healthy. It’s not like people stopped listening to podcasts. That audience is still vibrant and growing. We always built this company to be profitable and productive when the VC money dried up.

All that ephemeral VC money flowing back out of podcasting does, however, highlight how we are different. We built this outfit on values, on meaning so much to our audience that they actually volunteer to give us money, even though we give them the work for free. And that is a steady and strong foundation that’s only buttressed by this move to worker ownership.

The new cooperative will focus on sustainability, fair compensation, and responsible growth. How will you hold the new partnership up to this?
Ultimately, it’ll be up to our workers, our partners and our audience. I think we’re all aligned on this, we’re all shooting for this. None of us is perfect, and the world isn’t perfect, either, but we’re gonna bust our butts.

Those words you used to describe Max Fun at the top…will you be striving to stick to that tone? 
Nah, that’s out the window. We’re going all Chomsky, all the time. We’re already working on a recap podcast of our new signature podcast, the Chomskycast. 

What kind of talent will you be seeking in the future? 
Besides Noam Chomsky?  We’re always looking for smart, funny people who stand out at a party and seem like they’d be a good friend.

Will creators retain their IP for their shows?
Yup!

What kind of advertising will we be hearing on Max Fun shows now?
Same as ever. No more than two spots a show, nothing that pretends not to be an ad, no pre-roll, hosts’ voices only, lots of stupid jokes and nonsense as appropriate.

Will Max Fun be open to partnering with shows outside of network for promo swaps and other growth opportunities?
I wouldn’t say no. We’ve done it some in the past and will probably do it some in the future. We’re already planning to send Chomsky to do Rogan and then Rogan’s gonna come do Chomsky. (Please note: we are not currently working with Noam Chomsky. But if his agent is reading this: yeah, we’d take a meeting.)

What Max Fun show are you most proud of?
I mean, I give a little advice here and there when our creators ask, but the shows really are theirs. I can only take credit for my shows, and even then only partial credit.

This will sound corny, because it is corny, but I am most proud that these great shows want to work with us. I mean yeesh, typing that out, I can see how truly corny it is, but it also is actually true. When I listen to Stop Podcasting Yourself, which was the first show in our network that wasn’t being made by me in my apartment, I find myself thinking, “these two geniuses work with us? Still?” That’s when I’m proud.

What are you most proud of in general?
I made it onto the “Notable Alumni” list on my high school’s Wikipedia page. And I guess my children and marriage and the art I’ve created. But mostly the Wikipedia thing. 

What are you highest hopes for the evolution of Maximum Fun?
I’m not a big high hopes guy. I never have goals. It’s one foot in front of the other with me. I mostly want this to stay a long term project. I want us to stick with it.

Thanks, Jesse!