Gaby Dunn

Photo courtesy of Robyn Van Swank

Gaby Dunn is a writer and podcaster and queer advocate, and the creator of Apocalypse Untreated, which follows: five mentally ill teenagers in an inpatient wilderness program during the apocalypse who are facing the end of the world and the end of their prescriptions. Follow Gaby on Twitter here.

How did you get introduced to the audio space? Have you always loved it, before podcasting? 
I didn't really know anything about it before podcasts became a well-known platform in the comedy community. So I think I was introduced to it through comedy circles at first and then started to really fall in love with it when the audio space broadened to include fiction shows like Welcome to Nightvale.

You do a show about money that's fun. I think a lot of women I know are terrified about their finances, do you? Do you think your show speaks to them specifically? Why is this?
Everyone is taught not to talk about money and straight women, or women married to cis men, especially are either the ones in charge of their family's finances and do all the work behind the scenes so to speak, OR are completely taken out of the conversation by their male partners. And if they're money is kept separate, they may not even talk about what the other person is doing financially. Do they have debt? Do they want to buy a house? I've met so many women who have not ever talked to their male partners about money -- whether they haven't shared their salaries or haven't talked about splitting expenses or discussed future money goals. It's not sexy and it's stressful so I get putting it off. Plus, I've noticed that in a lot of families, the father will pass financial knowledge down to the son and not to the daughter and assume her future husband will handle it. It's all so steeped in patriarchy. It's gross.

Apocalypse Untreated is totally different. How was the writing process different? 
I didn't know how to write an audio fiction podcast. I had to learn the ways it's different from a screenplay. You can't show so you have to tell. You have to think about what sounds could go here and how to convey action with just noises and words. It was such a great and fun challenge.

What do you hope this show does for people?
I hope it teaches them a bit more about different mental illnesses and I hope it dispels myths about bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and suicidal ideation. I hope people hear it and either feel seen or reevaluate why they feel scared of mental illness or why they hold ableist beliefs about neuro-atypical people. I hope it creates some authentic representation of these too often villainized communities.

The characters in Apocalypse Untreated are teens–is this show for teens? Or do you hope speaking through them will help adults identify with their own mental health, too?
I think this is for everyone but I did specifically want to target teens because I think they are really infantilized and talked down to about mental health. It's all swept under the rug as like, teen angst or them being dramatic. Or, it's really made to be about optics for the parents and making sure the parents feel like they're still good parents. As if the teenager's mental health is the parents failing somehow. So rarely does it allow for the teen to actually explore what's going on with them or to talk about it in any real way, especially because therapists might be reporting back to the parents. These are all things I felt when I was having these problems as a teen. I just didn't feel heard. So this is for everyone but I hope teens feel like they relate.

What's more important, story or sound?
Story!!!

Apocalypse literature is so hot right now. Why?
Oh, well all feel like it's the end of the world and in lots of ways it is! When I wrote this in 2019, I was writing a fictional world in which the President of the US denies climate change and blames a natural disaster on China. And then I was spookily right. I think we all want to either escape entirely, or immerse ourselves completely in hypotheticals that might make us feel more in control. Never has the apocalypse felt closer! Why did everyone start watching Contagion the first week of Covid? We're fascinated. 

How were you able to create characters dealing with kids in an inpatient program? How did you maintain sensitivity?
I read tons of books about people being in inpatient programs. I interviewed schizophrenic teenagers. I worked with a co-writer on the project. And I centered the teens' perspectives. I very specifically did not make any of them the butt of any jokes. They make jokes about themselves. They tell their own stories. I also pulled from my own experiences with bipolar disorder and suicide. I think specifically suicide is very misunderstood and I've been suicidal and attempted suicide and I think people believe they understand why someone would do that but I'd never seen my specific story shared in any media that didn't villainize the person so that came through in the character of Arlo. Much of it is my own experience.

How much research went into creating Apocalypse Untreated?
So much. I read so many books. But also, like I said, a lot of it is my own experiences with suicide or bipolar or even disordered eating. 

Can you tease us with anything exciting coming up in Apocalypse Untreated? 
I'm very excited about a character named Sasha and a speech she gives about ableism. I am also excited for the gay lady drama.

What’s something listeners don’t understand about podcasts and what goes into making them? 
There's so much audio production and direction in it. So much goes into post-production and making it sound good. I can write all I want, but if Audible hadn't done so much post-production, it wouldn't be at the level it is. You need a great director, just like you would for tv or film, and you need great editors.

Why are you the perfect creator for this show?
I've lived through much of the mental health issues these characters experience. I felt a burning need to express my annoyance with the current representation of mental illness. I am bipolar. I have suicidal ideation. I have disordered eating. And I can write. So when those two things combine, I feel I have to try and create more authentic representation, and I can only do that through pouring my own experiences onto the page.

If you were going to create another podcast, don’t worry about the logistics or whether or not anyone would like it, what would it be? 
Queer woman rom com! Trans adventure story! Or a part II to Apocalypse Untreated.

Women in podcasting are constantly being criticized for their voices. What is your relationship with yours? How would you describe your voice? 
My voice is loud and deeply nasal. It's quirky. Like a cartoon voice. I don't mind it. I only care when it seems like I'm talking over people so I try to monitor that and make sure I'm letting other people talk.

What shows do you love?
I love Web Crawlers. Homecoming. I loved S Town. I loved Root of Evil. I love You're Wrong About. I love a lot of shows. I love Sibling Rivalry with Bob and Monet. I mean, there's so so many. There's a pod for everything.

Is there anything I didn’t ask you that you’d like to talk about?
I think this was thorough. I just want to thank my incredible cast and my co-writer Brittani Nichols and my director Joy Smith. And Audible!

Thanks, Gaby!