Tom McCabe and Kirk Rudell
Tom McCabe, a leading soccer historian, and Emmy-nominated TV writer Kirk Rudell (Spin City, Will & Grace, American Dad!) co-host An American Game where they explore the lesser known, but hugely impactful roots of America’s soccer history ahead of the 2026 World Cup.
Describe your show in 10 words or less.
History meets Hollywood meets US soccer.
Where should people start if they haven’t already?
“The Original Denim Kit” about the US team at the first World Cup has all the stuff we love to put in a story: forgotten history, great characters, and a celebration of the immigrants who were proud to represent their country. Season Two has opened up some new sound design, so “A Boycott Is a Flat Circle” or “Our Family Versus Your Team” would be good introductions to the show.
Can you tell us the show’s origin story?
In 2019 we premiered a documentary called SOCCERTOWN, USA about Kearny, New Jersey. It won some festival awards and was set to travel to more festivals in 2020 when the world shut down. That movie was about the 150 year history of soccer in one town–about the generations of immigrants who had moved there, bringing their dreams (and their love of the game) with them. And it was about three guys who grew up there, who became World Cup heroes for the United States and helped launch pro soccer here. The logistics of making more soccer documentaries was…challenging, especially with Kirk in LA and Tom in London. So we wondered if we might be able to explore more stories about American soccer history in a podcast. And it turns out we can!
How are you both similar and how are you different? What do you each bring to the table?
We’ve been friends since we were college freshmen, so we share certain sensibilities–values, sense of humor, love of the game. Tom is a scholar by trade, so he brings an academic rigor that makes us more than just “two guys bantering about soccer.” We joke that there comes a time in every middle aged man’s life when he decides to buy a microphone and start a podcast, but we were very conscious of what we wanted to do–and why we wanted to do it. If we were going to do a podcast, it needed to be specific to us: what can we do that no other show is doing? And we believed (and still believe) that telling real history in a way that–because of Kirk’s decades of screenwriting/playwrighting/etc–is fun to listen to is a lane not many other people are in. We know how to structure a story and lead you through it in a way that should be pretty entertaining.
Has working on this podcast changed your relationship to sports - or fandom in general?
If anything it has made us more connected to the game and to others who love it. The day to day wins and losses, trades, injuries, etc. are part of a much larger narrative, a much larger community. We want to give our audience some context to understand and connect with that, as well, but every time we’re “teaching” something we’ve learned more ourselves.
What do you hope listeners feel after an episode, not just learn about Soccer History?
We hope that they feel that sense of community–that they are part of a soccer nation. And that doesn’t just mean people play and watch the game, though that’s part of it. We like to say that US soccer history mirrors–for better AND for worse–the larger American story. So we want them to feel pride at being part of this 150-year story of immigrants coming and playing and cheering, even as they built their lives and raised their families. And we want them to feel resolved to help us, as a nation, not repeat some of our low points. And, most of all, we want them to feel like listening to another episode.
What’s a story from American soccer history that feels especially relevant heading into the World Cup 2026?
Lots to choose from, but the 1980 Olympic team missing the Summer Games in Moscow is pretty resonant right now. We spent an episode talking about the fact that 1980 United States would probably boycott 2026 United States. On a more positive note, a lot of people will be looking for big wins in our past that might serve as inspiration for this summer. The US upset of England at the 1950 World Cup is one; the 1994 victory over Colombia is another. But we’re going to suggest people look up the story of our 2-0 win over Spain in the semifinal of the Confederations Cup in 2009. Spain was the undisputed number one national team in the world, undefeated for 35 straight games, on their way to winning the 2010 World Cup. But a tough and talented U.S. team coached by our old college coach, Bob Bradley, showed what can happen over 90-plus minutes. We said on our latest episode that a lot of guys on the current U.S. team plays like they already have the world’s respect; that 2009 group played like they were still trying to earn it. That’s as relevant as it gets right now for the United States.
What’s a podcast you love that everyone already knows about?
The Rest Is History does what they do really well, obviously. And in soccer, we’re fans of The Cooligans.
What’s a podcast you love that not enough people know about?
Beat LA is co-hosted by another good friend of ours from college, and it’s a San Francisco-centric rundown of sports and pop culture that’s a really fun listen. And they get good guests.
What didn’t I ask you that I should have?
Kirk is taller than Tom.
Thanks, Tom and Kirk!