Ben Hamm

Ben Hamm is the host of The Secret Room. Follow him on Twitter here.

Kindly introduce yourself and The Secret Room!
Gladly. And thanks for having me here Lauren. I’m Ben Hamm and I host The Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one every tells. ☺

How did the show happen?
As a career radio producer I took notice of podcasting when it was starting, downloading podcasts to my computer and syncing them with my iPod. That was 2006, before we had iPhones. You know, the dark ages.   In 2015 the media was starting to call the period “the second golden age of radio,” and that really tugged at me. I was so excited by what was happening with the medium I loved. But my radio job was just too good to leave in search of some start up to take a chance on. That kinda bummed me out. But then, since I’m such a mensa, it occurred to me I could enter the space by producing my own podcast. So I called my friend Dahlia Beta and said “you wanna start a podcast with me?” Without missing a beat she said “YES!” I had a feeling she would. Then she asked what it would be about.    We were both huge fans of storytelling podcasts, so we brainstormed on how we could push the genre. And thus, The Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells was born. That was February 2016. Dahlia left about a year later to have a baby. Both the fans and I miss her enormously. We’re still the best of friends.

How have you been able to grow the show yourself? It's admirable!
Gee thanks. Our strategy has been to go after mentions in mainstream media and platforms. Social media is a key part of our marketing strategy, but our biggest audience jumps have correlated with exposure on places like Buzzfeed, BBC, Elle, Apple, and Podbean.  

Of course, program quality is a huge driver of traffic too. Over the years we’ve streamlined our editorial process to tell stories better. We’ve also enhanced production quality so that those stories sound better. We still have a lot of work to do in both areas, but if you compare what we’re doing now to shows as recently as a year ago, I think you can hear the difference. 

Sometimes I listen to these crazy stories and I find myself, unfortunately, getting judgmental. But you never are! You have such empathy for everyone. 1) Are you empathetic in real life? Has this helped you in being the host of this show? 2) How do you maintain empathy, when often your guests are telling you stories of shocking things they've done?
A multi-part question, I love it! You might not expect this answer, but I don’t think I’m as empathetic in person as I am on the podcast. I know that sounds awful. I think my on-air empathy is driven by my sheer amazement that people would honor the Secret Room as the sanctuary in which to reveal their most private stories. I’m so humbled every time. How could I return that trust with anything but the utmost empathy and respect?

In episode 88 “Objectum Sexual” Joey confessed his feelings of love and sexual attraction for inanimate objects. That interview garnered more “How did you keep a straight face?” questions from people than any other episode. But it wasn’t a challenge for me at all. Joey was revealing the conflicts his true nature causes him.  How could I laugh at that?  It’s just so real.

How do your guests feel after a show is done? Do they ever say, after recording, "I'm not comfortable releasing that to the world?”
It’s happened only four times. But each one has been a major bummer. Mostly because I’ve invested time and money. I also feel tremendous loss at not being able to share an amazing story I’ve become very involved with. And even though I could legally air the interview with signed releases in place, I still defer to the guest’s reluctance. Sigh. I tell myself it goes with the territory and to be glad it hasn’t happened more often.

And if you really want to know how guests feel after the show, it’s documented! After the interview the guests and I always share a moment of reflection on what it was like for them. These “post interviews” are available in our Patreon exclusive version of the podcast called The Secret Room | Unlocked. Each episode expands on the current episode of The Secret Room. In addition to post interviews you also hear unheard revelations about the story, deleted scenes and bloopers.  It’s great fun for hard core listeners. ☺  (Patreon.com/SecretRoom).

You seem to have the perfect voice for podcasting. It's warm and inviting and deep. (It sounds like I have a crush on your voice.) Lots of women podcasters are criticized for their voices. Are you? What is your relationship with your voice?
Oh baby, tell me more! You really know how to get to a podcaster’s heart.  But alas, not everyone agrees. I received a couple one-star iTunes reviews recently that called my voice “droning” and “pseudo-soothing.”  Whatever!

I’ve been in radio for a long time, so I’ve had puh-lenty of chances to course correct in the voice department. I must also take this opportunity to recognize a perfect EQ setting and my Sure SM7B microphone which contribute greatly to how I sound. I heart that mic! And Michael used the Sure SM7B on “Thriller.” You can’t argue with the king. 

As for women’s voices being criticized, that is a whole other topic which stirs me up. In many ways we still live in a male-centric world, and there are many societal costs associated with that. I’m just proud that 83% of Secret Room listeners are female.

Who do these episodes help more...us listeners? Or the people who are being interviewed? Or YOU?
Ha, great question. I’m not able to quantify how much my guests have contributed to my life. But it’s a lot.   

But I think the interviews most benefit the guest and listeners who are similarly situated to the guest they are listening to. The release of exposing your secret; or the chance to relate to someone who’s sharing a story just like your own, can both be powerful experiences. I can’t tell you how many guests and listeners I’ve connected who share common stories.

Why is this a good show to listen to NOW...for people in quarantine?
I have an answer to this from listeners. They’ve written to tell me that in isolation the community that The Secret Room brings them is even more important than before. Some find community in the shared experience. For others the value is in the wonder of another’s world revealed.  Both seem to be good medicine in quarantine.

Why are you the perfect host for The Secret Room? (I'm saying you are, because you are!)
I don’t know that I am, Dahlia was pretty good in our first year! When she left people were very upset. (I wasn’t sure how to take that, LOL.) But gee, I’m not sure how to answer your question. Let me just say that I care deeply about the community we’ve grown and how the show has developed. I plan to nurture it for as long as I can.

If people haven't listened to The Secret Room yet, 1) shame on them and 2) where should they start?
Lauren that is such a hard question to ask me! I’m my own worst critic and I really just want to rip them all down. But based on audience response people could start with Episode 64 My Daughter’s Famous Father. It’s about a woman in the Netherlands who, on her deathbed, reveals that her daughter is the product of a summer fling with an American movie star.  It’s terribly moving and she passed before it aired. I get sad whenever I think about it.   

After that jump to 81 “Despicable Houseguest” and then 86 “My Catfish Wrecked Me” and then binge from there to the present. If you’re still listening I give permission to go back and catch up on older episodes. You’ll be more forgiving knowing the show improves with age!

How is an episode born and developed?
Oooo, I love this. The nuts and bolts are my favorite part.  

Almost all stories are submitted by listeners. My producer Susie Lark and I comb through the submissions looking for impactful stories, ones that document the human experience. We are often criticized for not being sensational enough, but the show is not trying to emulate Jerry Springer. We’re going for heartfelt and meaningful.

To qualify, stories must also have a clear story arc. Elements would include a conflict and a path to resolution that ends with a climax delivering a lesson. Boom, basic stuff.

Some submissions are a sentence, others are 20-minute voice recordings. We narrow them down to the best and conduct pre-interviews with potential guests. In that conversation we hammer out how the story can best be told.

For those stories we advance to interview I mail a mic kit that includes a digital Tascam recorder and a Sure SM58 mic. When we sit down to do the interview we speak over the phone, but we each record our side of the interview locally on our own gear. The guest mails the kit back and I mix their track with mine and voilà, it sounds like we’re in the same room. This old radio trick used to be called a tape-sync. The kids today call it a double-headed interview or something like that. It’s used a lot in non-breaking news scenarios, but it does require a budget.

After that there is a painstaking editing process. Hopefully you can’t tell, but every interview is highly edited to present the story in the richest and most concise way. Normally an interview that’s an hour and fifteen minutes will consolidate down to about 45 minutes. Editing is the longest and most grueling part of the production process. After that’s complete, it’s all downhill creating the intro and closing narration, bridges into advertising and producing the social media. The fun stuff!

That seems so crazy to me, like someone who complains about that doesn’t understand the show at all. It reminds me of when I tell people I love Disney World and they say, “You should go to Universal Studios instead, the rides are more fun.” It’s like…I don’t want shit-your-pants scary rides, I want Disney World. These people misunderstand what I’m looking for. That was a tangent but…when people criticize you for not being sensational enough, do you ever just think, “I don’t think the are the right fit for the show. They want Jerry Springer.” Or do you try to win them back?
I don't think there's much I can do about negative reactions to the show. Those people are looking for something else so I'm happy to let them find it. But since you asked a question with a tangent, may I answer with one?  It's gonna be real talk.  I've been surprised at the misogyny that's exposed when I've done stories about affairs. There's a lot of vitriol out there for the female in the story and none for the men.  Even when it's clearly been the man who was leading the pursuit. I did take on one listener about her reaction and had a civil but heated exchange. Ultimately she did see my point and I give her credit for that.  But I find the fallout from the audience on affair driven stories to be so severe that unless there is something really fascinating or redeeming about one, I'm just not going to do it.

What has The Secret Room taught you about yourself? About the world?
Earlier you asked me if I was empathetic in real life. The podcast has certainly taught me the importance of empathy. So I strive to be as empathetic a person in life as I am in the podcast.

And what has it taught me about the world? It has taught me that everyone has a story, good or bad. It’s taught me that people are deserving of kindness by default. And that we should make no assumptions about the ease or difficulty of the path that has led people to the point where we meet them.

What do you hope The Secret Room does for people?
When Dahlia and I started the podcast our goal was to entertain. We just wanted to tell amazing stories that had never been heard. But what we discovered is that people keep those stories secret for a reason. And it’s usually not due to modesty. It’s because people associate their stories with embarrassment, shame, or guilt. It could also be that they didn’t do anything wrong, they just fear judgement.  

My hope is that the Secret Room can help normalize how we view the struggles people go through. That’s not to say none of my guests haven’t crossed any lines. I’m just saying I hope the show can help us view people’s struggles in context and not be quick to condemn. Because honestly, so what if Kris shook her butt on a private YouTube channel?!  (Ep. 113 “Too Much Butt!). Shouldn’t she be able to tell her husband proudly!?

What is the most challenging thing about making The Secret Room?
The production schedule. I’m not complaining, but you asked!  It’s just a tremendous amount of work. I had no idea producing a podcast that comes out every two weeks would take literally All. My. Time. 

What has influenced your storytelling style? Any other storytellers/writers/creators?
As an upcoming radio producer, the godfather of radio storytelling, Joe Frank, really shook my world. His program “Joe Frank: Work In Progress” remains untouchable. No one has surpassed his capacity for producing mesmerizing radio stories that grip you and will not let go. It was broadcast from 1986 through 2002.

I’ve also been entranced by radio storytelling master Jonathan Goldstein. Specifically, his now defunct CBC podcast “WireTap” was a letdown every time it was over…because it was over! He’s currently producing great new content on Heavyweight. Listen if you haven’t.

If anyone wants to learn secrets of great podcast storytelling, grab a copy of Out on the Wire: The Storytelling Secrets of the New Masters of Radio by Jessica Abel.  It’s a graphic novel, but don’t let that fool you. It’s tremendous reporting on how the best podcast storytellers craft their shows and chock-full of "That's how they do it!" moments.

If you were going to start a new podcast…don’t worry about whether or not anyone would like it or any of the logistics…what would it be?
Dahlia and I toyed with a hobby podcast called “Cookie Quest” in which we go in search of the world’s best chocolate chip cookie!  We visited a couple restaurants and recorded our lame reviews at the table. I don’t think anyone wants to hear that, but we had a rollicking good time!  It never came to fruition.

What's YOUR secret?
Ha! Listen Lauren, my guests get to be anonymous. But here’s a go just because I like you!  

My dog peed on a baby at the park while his mom was gazing the other way. The canine interloper scurried off before mom turned around. I doubt she ever knew the indignity my pooch bestowed upon her offspring. And, yeah, I basically fled the scene.  I carry this secret shame two decades on.  

Hopefully that’s good enough for now? ;).

Anything I didn’t ask you about that you want to say?
Just that I’m excited to guest star in your rockin’ newsletter…and that we’re lucky to have you supporting our nascent industry. Thanks so much for the opportunity. It’s great to know you. ☺

Thanks, Ben!