Anna Sale
PHOTO BY MINDY TUCKER
Anna Sale is host and creator of Death, Sex & Money, the interview podcast from Slate. Before Anna launched the show, Anna covered politics for nearly a decade. In 2021, she published the book Let’s Talk About Hard Things, a reported memoir about having direct conversations on death, sex, money, family and identity. She grew up in West Virginia and now lives with her two kids and husband, a wildlife ecologist, in Berkeley and rural Wyoming.
Describe Death, Sex & Money in 10 words or less.
interviews about “things we think about a lot and need to talk about more”
Why audio? (Why did you choose it, why is it perfect for DSM?)
I’ve always worked in audio – I love the rhythm and intimacy of a well-crafted story for your ears. Audio is also the perfect medium for our show because it allows listeners to opt in and listen along to a public conversation about tough personal stuff that they might be too timid to join in public, and hearing the varied texture of people’s voices underscores a key value of the show: that each of us has particular joys and challenges in life that are specific to our context, but everyone – famous or not, older or younger, urban or rural – has something illuminating to share around stories of loss, love, and survival.
What’s your favorite thing about working in audio?
I get to work with the musicality of the voice. Along with interviewing, I also really love editing and thinking intentionally about pacing and tone to make beautiful listens with real tonal range, something enabled by our longtime sound designer Andrew Dunn. Alicia Montgomery, Slate’s head of audio, described Death, Sex & Money’s sound as “no make-up make-up,” and I love that idea. I want my interviewing and our editing to feel like we’re pulling out and pointing to the essence of our guests’ stories -- never crowding it out with over-production or cleverness.
How has the show changed in the last 10 years?
The most fun thing about making a show about death, sex, and money is that we have been able to iterate the whole time on what counts as an episode and the ways we make episodes. The one constant over 10 years is that our most ambitious episodes are drawn from listener stories. We collect these through really open-question callouts and then stitch them together as a collage so it feels like the whole DSM listening community is gathering in a clubhouse to compare notes.
The other big change has been on the business side when we moved from WNYC to Slate in early 2024. Editorially, our show is similar to how it always is, and our team is funded with a combination of listener support (now through Slate Plus membership) and advertising. and our new Slate colleagues have invigorated the team.
How have you changed in the last 10 years?
I’ve gotten 10 years older! I’ve also gotten married, become a parent, moved from New York to California, become a homeowner, paid off some debt, been through the pandemic and all the challenges that entailed for my loved ones, gotten laid off, and started with a. new company. Our show is all about life transitions and how we approach key decision points, and a lot of the conversations on the show directly shaped the way I’ve gotten through a lot of this.
What’s an episode that was super fun to make?
In the last year, we hosted a live memorial service for Death, Sex & Money in New York, as we were ending our run at WNYC. We called it Four Interviews and a Funeral, and many repeat guests like Ellen Burstyn and Chris Gethard, and Lawrence and Ronnine Bartley joined in. I delivered a eulogy for the show up to that point, which was also really helpful for me as I thought through our show’s meaning and legacy. The New Yorker wrote about it, and I still feel so proud at how we pulled that off when the team was all facing an uncertain future and didn’t know what was next when it came to our jobs.
Then, a few months later, after Slate acquired the show and I joined Slate along with two Death, Sex & Money producers, I got to host another sold-out show at KQED in San Francisco called Four Interviews and a Revival. Our host band was led by Dwayne Wiggins of Tony Toni Toné. Getting to be on stage, dancing to their finale number – the Tony Toni Toné classic “It Feels Good” -- really was the most thrilling moment I’ve had in my journalism career. It did feel good.
Who are your listeners? How would you describe them?
Our listeners surprise me! The range of who they are is one of the best parts of the job. I’d say the biggest demographic chunk of our show are people around my age, mid-30s to mid-40s, and lean women, but certainly not exclusively so. We hear from listeners at all stages of life and from all over the world. I think this is because our show homes in on critical life transitions and milestones, so no matter where you are in life, if you’re going through something, you can find community in the stories we share.
Any good listener interactions you want to tell me about?
When I meet a listener in real life, the coolest thing is they don’t want to just want to take a picture or say hello, they want to tell me all that’s happened in their life as they’ve listened to Death, Sex & Money. They tell me about walking with their infants, listening through a breakup or divorce, making a big move, etc. It’s like hearing the mission statement for the show repeated back to me. We want to be a show that feels like we’re accompanying you through whatever’s going on in your life, and that’s an ongoing process when you’re dealing with stories of death, sex, and money. Those hits keep coming! There are no quick tips or hacks to get around times of uncertainty or messiness, so for us, it’s about showing up and being in a relationship over the long haul.
What are 1-5 podcasts you love that everyone already knows about?
My current go-to’s: Search Engine, Slow Burn, Handsome, Today Explained, What Next.
What are 1-5 podcasts you love that not enough people know about?
I’m a big music fan, so I always recommend Song Exploder and Switched on Pop. These shows are definitely not sleepers, but when I recommend them, I am surprised more people don’t know about them. I love how they introduce me to new pop music, the mechanics of how the songs work, and the people behind them.
I also love tv and movies and Talk Easy is really wonderful interview show that more people should listen to. Host Sam Fragoso does extensive research, and he lands guests that I rarely hear elsewhere in longform conversations. The New Yorker’s Critics At Large is also a fun listen that keeps me plugged into to their corner of the cultural zeitgeist, which is useful now that I’m trying to spend less time on social media.
I’ve also been listening a lot to That Hoarder: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding, after learning about it in this newsletter! In fact, it prompted us to make an episode of Death, Sex & Money with its very charming and honest host.
Are there too many podcasts?
No, but there aren’t enough newsletters like yours to help me keep up with all the ones I need to check out!
When it comes to podcasts and your work, what is the number one thing people ask you?
“How do you get people to open up about such personal things?” I was asked this so much that I decided to write a book about it, called Let’s Talk About Hard Things. But my approach is pretty simple:
Prepare thoroughly and think about what I’m curious about and what a listener will want to hear.
Explain at the top of a taping what I want to talk to a guest about and why, and how we will follow up after the recording is over so they know what to expect.
While I’m interviewing, I have a plan of the beats to hit, but I try to stay curious and loose and not afraid of conversational cul de sacs. The audio gold is often after follow-ups about an intriguing word choice or random aside.
Laugh out loud at the absurd moments.
Remember there are a lot of ways to go through life, and a lot I haven’t personally experienced, so ask questions with humility.
Don’t flinch from pointed questions and ask them with care. I start a lot of questions with “This may be too personal a question, but I wonder…” or something like that.
Enjoy getting to know someone! These kinds of deep personal conversations with strangers can be rare in our everyday lives, so revel in the way interviewing enables you to connect and compare notes.
Thanks, Anna!